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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 637
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Wait a minute guys!!
Close the closet door!!!
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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Francis Whaling
Senior Novice
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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John, I wanted the hug from your wife not you man, I see where your mind is going though 
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Only two things are infinite the universe, and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former._____________Albert Einstein |
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RayM
Just Another Club Racer
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Upsidedown on the track
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| John Horn wrote: | | until someone sticks a kart over, the fence in turn 7, . |
Man thats "going to be" one high flying kart in order to do that...
Those that know , understand why I am saying this ....
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Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition. |
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John Horn
Master
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 702
Location: Troy Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess I am not in the know then Ray...so what does that mean? |
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Francis Whaling
Senior Novice
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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John I think the talk is an 8 foot fence behind the current fence, I talked to Gary yesterday and he eluded to this but he wasn't very specific, not sure how a higher fence behind the current fence is going to help the situation but I guess we will see how it comes out in the wash......... Its nice to see that the topic is being concidered and that maybe there is a solution on the horizon.
Francis
PS just to clarify my coment about not knowing how one fence behind another is going to help, my concern in that corner is hitting the fence before significant speed reduction is achieved to minimize the impact. and I feel the only way to do that is with adaquite runoff room, which as of sunday we just don't have.
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Only two things are infinite the universe, and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former._____________Albert Einstein |
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RayM
Just Another Club Racer
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Upsidedown on the track
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Air Bags.
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Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition. |
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RayM
Just Another Club Racer
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Upsidedown on the track
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| John Horn wrote: |
Now, I guess I need to gripe more about turn 7, not the people who designed it, or the thought process behind it, but the dumb ole track, that laid itself out dangerously. |
John , i found this well written piece that ALL karters should use, and would be very effective. Honey is always better then Vinger.
| Quote: | By Michael Boone
1. We have to approach the track owners/clubs from a positive way
that we're not trying to knock them down but make it better and safer for the karter and for them.
How and why??
Try saying to a track owner/club "I've got something that scares and or concerns me and I really need your help! could I tell you whats on my mind and see if there's something you can do. I saw the video of this crash and couldn't believe how close he got to that stake holding the fence do you think we could move it back or find something else to support the fence what do you think??"
Get your point across but leaving him (the track owner/Club) to make the decision,
make suggestion not demands and NEVER threats. |
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Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition. |
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Toshiya
Master
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 1013
Location: Downtown Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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If it is a safety issue, we all have to take a look at and need to discuss and do right action.
I only have 4 years in karting or any kind of racing and I like to hear from people have more expriences than I have.
Everything we do every day is not safe but we all change, add, or make things safer.
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Mike31
Master
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 414
Location: KY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Track Safety |
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To go along with these comments on track safety who is qualified or what makes someone qualified to speak about what is safe or what isn't safe. I read over on e-karting the thread on safety
http://www.ekartingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=69347
and it is interesting hearing everyone's suggestions and experience. For example adding sand pits or gravel pits or tire barriers. There were some very specific ways of doing this to be safe and if not done properly you could create another danger point. Is there a guide or a group from say WKA that can evaluate a track or an idea and make recommendations based on experience or a specific specification? I hate to just base this on what a small group of people think is safe or as I said we may do something that seems like a good idea but when the first kart hits what we think is a safety addition or enhancement and it causes more problems then we have made very bad decision. Not being negative but we had a small group work on turtles and as you can see there various opinions on what is a good turtle design and what is not a good turtle design.
So what makes someone qualifed to say what is safe or not?
Not trying to be a smart a$$ but shouldn't go back to the track safety topic and put our ideas here.
Also to avoid another turtle like controversy (spelling?) I would suggest that we propose and explain what is planned (being very specific) before we implement anything thus giving the membership a chance to voice their input and not being the Monday morning quarterback by complaining about what was done without their input. Maybe this could be briefly explained in a drivers meeting and if anyone wants more details they could see a BoD member or track committee or whoever is in charge of the changes. I am not sure this is possible or not as this track is owned by Gary and not by OVKA. Also, I would not want to hold up any safety changes. Just a suggestion.
Mike
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"Baby, you got the keys now "Shut Up and Drive"!
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JW
Ducttape specialist
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Canfield,OH
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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You need to collect some data to do an analysis of the needs to be filled. Max mph on entry of the turn, vehicle type (total weight), tangent angles of incident with there respective runoff distance, angle of impact to barrier. With that information solutions can be considered for the exact needs.
example: runoff is limited so the barrier should idealy be some form of absorbtion while remaining in a stationary location. Wiith a little more room you can consider barriers that absorb by being moveable, this is where speed and weight help determine the total weight of barrier.
Remember there are a lot of barrier systems with some being expensive. The best the club can do is assist the track with ideas and concerns, but they have to be able to apply the cost into their business plan and this sounds like an unexpected cost.
If you do goto a consultant for help I would recommend Alan Wilson. He has designed some beautiful tracks and does many of the temp circuits for cars.
just some thoughts,
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Joe Woronka
JW's Eurotech Racing Margay/B'stone/VEGA/Kosmic/AimSportsystems |
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Doug Stempfley II
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 829
Location: Trenton, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Good input Joe & Mike.
Thanks for that post.
At tirn 7 it would be a cool possiblity to have sand or gravel right in front of the fence after moving the fence back to the kart path along with having strall bails or pillows resting against the fence.
Does anyone know what config that GLSS & Gold Cup would want to be racing on. I could see them having more issues that our club due to we are more familuar with the old part of the track.
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Doug Stempfley II
O.V.KA Board Member
2008 Stempfley Race Season
OVKA Double Champion, Jr Yamaha 1 & 2
Sponsored By Upbeats DJ's, APPCO, L&T Clutches, Storage Plus, Slattery Chassis & State Farm. Arrow Karts Powered By APPCO Racing Engines |
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RayM
Just Another Club Racer
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Upsidedown on the track
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Stempfley II wrote: | Good input Joe & Mike.
Thanks for that post.
At turn 7 it would be a cool possibility to have sand or gravel right in front of the fence after moving the fence back to the kart path along with having straw bails or pillows resting against the fence.
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I second the great posts by them, a lot of good info in them.
The only problem i see with a sand/gravel trap is the clean-up around the area after a kart has hit, and then the clean up of the kart and engine. I can just see some kid hitting the trap and revving his engine and getting the stones/sand all in his chain and bearings, not to mention the engine.
But i do see your point Doug they are effective in stopping a kart...
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Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition. |
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Doug Stempfley II
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 829
Location: Trenton, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Give the corner worker a broom and get out and do a quick sweep during a local yellow (no passing in that turn).
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Doug Stempfley II
O.V.KA Board Member
2008 Stempfley Race Season
OVKA Double Champion, Jr Yamaha 1 & 2
Sponsored By Upbeats DJ's, APPCO, L&T Clutches, Storage Plus, Slattery Chassis & State Farm. Arrow Karts Powered By APPCO Racing Engines |
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RayM
Just Another Club Racer
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1476
Location: Upsidedown on the track
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any other material that might work ? 
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Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition. |
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Doug Stempfley II
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 829
Location: Trenton, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a debate about F1 traps
http://forums.f1-live.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1310&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
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Doug Stempfley II
O.V.KA Board Member
2008 Stempfley Race Season
OVKA Double Champion, Jr Yamaha 1 & 2
Sponsored By Upbeats DJ's, APPCO, L&T Clutches, Storage Plus, Slattery Chassis & State Farm. Arrow Karts Powered By APPCO Racing Engines |
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Francis Whaling
Senior Novice
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Turn 7 solutions,
Move fence from current location to behind pit access lane, install interlocking plastic barriers infront of fence filled with water/sand this will help prevent submarining under fence, then install southbend style pillows infront of the barriers to provide a soft impact zone to lessen the damage from a off track excursion, also the increased runoff room will allow the karts to slow down their speed before any collision occurs.
My opinion take it or don't.
Francis
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Only two things are infinite the universe, and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former._____________Albert Einstein |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 637
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Toshiya,
I've been trying to tell all involved that Safety is everyones issue!!!
If there's something about the track that YOU feel isn't safe, then exercise your best judgment as to whether to race or not.
As for turn 7, use some concrete and widen the inner apex 4-5 feet or so. This will allow more room for passing in this turn, and remove the "launch ramp" when entering turn 7. The track drops away slightly here, and any loss of traction will be enhanced leading to a slide off the outside. Especially if the Turtle is hit.
I think this would be a cost effective way to mediate the problem.
When I ran Watkins Glen, I didn't like the fact that the steel guard rails were only 6' off the track all around. Still raced there. It's known as "The Steel Tube".
Racing is an enherantly hazardous sport, any racing. You can't get all the risk out, you can only manage it, wisely. That's your call and responsibility.
Oh yeah, I'm likely to move this thread to another portion of this forum. It's getting off point here.
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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Francis Whaling
Senior Novice
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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John, Tires are ok as a barrier as long as the mosquito problem is looked after and also as long as the tires are all bolted together, it is far better if the barrier works as one unit (tires attatched to each other) then if the tires are individually stacked, if you hit a tire barrier that is all connected then the whole units weight works to slow the kart down, where as if the tires are just stacked one on top of the other the chances for the tires to be sent flying is greater which decreases their effectiveness at slowing down or stoping the kart. The other concern that hasn't really been talked about is the fence posts which I am sure are burried in the ground pretty solid, bottom line the farther the fence is away from the track the better.
My opinion take it or don't
Francis
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Only two things are infinite the universe, and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former._____________Albert Einstein |
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Toshiya
Master
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 1013
Location: Downtown Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| John Horn wrote: | | I thought you were supposed to put you old kart tires in the dumpster at home? |
John,
Do you have a dumpster at your home? 
Most people just have one or two garbage cans.
What are you guys dumping every week???
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I am Toshiya and I approve this message. |
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Jean Stafford
Master
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 637
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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The balance of this thread has been moved to Kart Tech Section.
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Jean Stafford
Stafford's Racing
4606 Webster St.
Dayton, Ohio
937-277-9944
E-Mail: Jean@sgandt.com |
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