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Scott Keith · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: To Brake Or Not To Brake

Yes, thats right, the questions keep on comin. The champ race has left me confused and concerned about my driving ability. So, my question is, if there is a wreck in front of you, do you brake, or maintain speed and attempt to dodge it? It seems to me, that most drivers dont slow down and just hope for the best in dodging a wreck. Im sure thats the correct way to do it, but, I cant get myself to drive that way. Twice during the champ race I saw two cars in front of me sideways or nearly on top of eachother, and therefore I got off the gas. Now, Im guessing what I did was the wrong thing to do, being that both times I was run over from behind. Just whenever I see something happen ahead of me I slow down, its my first reaction. The race itself left me confused in how I qualified 12th, yet finished 19th, all because I let off for a near wreck in front of me. And with the number of people that have hit me from behind, Im starting to wonder if I even deserve to be in Supercan. Something I do is very different than others in avoiding wrecks, and I think I really need some help in that part of racing.

Thanks

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

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Gary Osterholt · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject:

Scott,

It all depends. Coming to a complete stop wouldn't be the right thing to do. But overall I think most of the time people don't look far enough ahead. That's something most new drivers and younger drivers have a problem doing.

Gary

Kathy20 · Just Another Club Racer Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1334

Scott,

You're not doing it all wrong, you just don't have enough experience with it yet. As Gary said, it all depends. What you do one time won't work the next time. Yes, if you slow down too much or too quick you risk getting run over, but you don't want to go into a crash full throttle either. Best thing to try to learn is look ahead, beyond what's right in front of you. Ease off it if something happens and watch which way the wrecked karts go. Sometimes you will have time to plan (you know, a second or two) what to do. Sometimes not. One thing I've found myself doing is, when I'm in a situation where I feel a crash or spin is likely, I'll watch the rear wheels of the karts ahead of me rather than watching the driver. Doing that, sometimes you can see the incident before it even happens. And don't forget that you can choose to start on the tail if you're more comfortable for a while...give you more learning time without being in the middle of "all that".

Scott Keith · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject:

I just cant get through the first lap without an incident. Im always watching for a wreck out in front of me, which might be causing me to let off before everyone else. Even then, Im still at a loss for how many times Ive been hit from behind and had my races ruined. Maybe Im doing something wrong, maybe Im just unlucky. Either way, I really hope I can figure out what the deal is and get some decent finishes. I keep on coming home from these races trying to figure out what went wrong. Thats racin' though, I guess.

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

RayM · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:

Scott , everyone that is new goes through this same thing , its a big part of the learning curve. We are still going through it, although Steven is really showing some good progress this past few races and is getting very good at getting around the wrecks.

Remember you are in a very big class for a beginner with a lot of other divers that have a few years of driving under their belt.

Do not let it get you down you will get better at the game of ditch'in an dodging them. Surprised

Kathy has and so will you.

One thing I did was to make Kathy's brake pedal so she had to reach to use it, so that she would not be so quick to step on it.
_________________
.

Tight is when the front end of my car hits the wall first and loose is when the back end hits first."
and scrape marks on the top of the helmet is a wheels up condition.

JohnC · Super Can Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 293

Scott,

Just curious, after you got out of traffic, Were your laptimes faster in the main then they were in the earlier heat?

Here's a shot or two of Scott in action. Any who's that behind him? (Way to look for the apex Kathy.)

_________________
Master Can #03 - G.P. Chassis - Tillett - Appco Engine - L&T Mini - Shockwave

Scott Keith · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject:

Learning curve, learning curve . . . well hopefully Ill get my "ditch'in and dodging" skills here soon, as I could sure use them!

And I dont know if that brake pedal trick would work with me, my legs are already packed in there pretty tight. Movin' the brake pedal would probably make them easier to use.

John, no my times werent too fast at all. The 80 sprocket was about a half second slower than what we had run in the pre final. However, I was so far back because of my spinout on the first lap that my slow times didnt hurt me much. Thanks for the suggestion though on the smaller sprocket, but I think I like what we were runnin with before during qualifying and the pre-final. Laughing

By the way, how do you like that oversteer in the second pic?

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

Kathy20 · Just Another Club Racer Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1334

Mike31 · Master Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 414 Location: KY

Scott,

I've got a neat little plan that keeps me from getting hit from behind when I come upon a wreck....I head for the grass on the outside and stay at my 2nd home (haybale section on outside of Turn 3) until the race is over. The only downfall of the plan is that I usually finish last.

I've got the same problem as you in that I don't cause the wreck but I am going to do everything possible to avoid hitting someone if at all possible. I will take the last place finish vs. hurting another driver. I hope with some more experience that I can avoid the wreck and keep going.

The best advise is to look far enough ahead so that you have more time to access the situation and drive around it. I have not been able to do this or the wreck happens in front in me and there is no place to go.

Another thing to do is to raise your hand to let drivers behind you know that you are slowing but usually there's no time or you need both hands on the wheel. Josh Etter did this in a race at Circleville last year and it helped me know that he had a problem so I did not hit him from behind.

Mike

Kathy20 · Just Another Club Racer Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1334

Hmmmm....couple thoughts, somebody tell me if I'm wrong....

First, Scott, I think you maybe should re-position your seat. Looks to me like you're too crunched in there, how can you drive if your hands are hittin' your knees?

Second, I think 80 is too small a gear for A configuration. A bigger gear will get you out of the turns better, thus improving your time. 80 may be fine for C config. but for A you probably want 83-84.

Thoughts, anyone?

Kathy20 · Just Another Club Racer Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1334

Scott Keith · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject:

Yeah Kathy, we found out the 80 was to small the hard way. Ive never tried anything above an 82, but I think me and my dad are goin out to Camden sometime this week to try out different sprockets, tirepressures, and most of all, learn the track a little better and how to drive CONSISTENTLY!

As for the first lap, so far this year my goal has not been to finish, but rather to survive. However, I think Im starting to gain confidence and I might actually be able to make something happen (positive of course) on the opening lap.

Ive never visited your second home, Mike. But Ill keep it in mind if turn 3 gets messy. Razz

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

RayM · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject:

JohnC · Super Can Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 293

Ya know, that is the second time that I've done that. As of today I swear that I'll never do it again. I have to take responsibility for the 80 tooth suggestion. Right after I said it to Todd (Scotts Dad), I said to myself, "Dummy you should have shut your mouth."

Scott, I apologize for suggesting the 80 tooth gear. It's just that I overheard several other fast drivers talking about it. In fact one of the guys that I run with went to an 80 and he was running well in the main. If I were racing Sunday that's what I would have done myself.

So, I do apologize for that one. Cool

_________________
Master Can #03 - G.P. Chassis - Tillett - Appco Engine - L&T Mini - Shockwave

Kathy20 · Just Another Club Racer Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1334

John / Scott,

A very experienced karter once told me that a good starting point is

A - 83/84

B - 82/83

C - 80/81

For what it's worth.....I guess it's like many things, different folks find success with different things.

Gary Osterholt · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am Post subject:

Every engine and driver combo will need something a little different. I once had a Can motor that would rev to 15000. That thing screamed and we would had teeth until the stop watch slowed down. That was that motor. We had a different motor that at the same time that would only want to turn around 14000. And the sprocket difference in the rear was about 4 teeth.

Also remember if you can drop teeth and not loose RPM you'll be faster normally.

Just remember this when listening to what others are doing. And sometime don't believe a word others are saying. :) Don't care how nice people are sometime you don't want to give away all your secrets.

Gary

Scott Keith · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:

Naw John dont worry about it! First year is the year to learn these kinds of things, (which me and my dad sometimes forget), and as Gary said, it all depends on the engine. And keep a'comin with suggestions, up till your sprocket blunder Laughing

you were doin just fine. And thanks Kathy for those sprocket suggestions, those will be very helpful.

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

JohnC · Super Can Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 293

Okay Scott, you asked for it!

I was looking over all of the photos I took of you in turn 7. I can not find a single shot in which your inside rear tire is lifted, even slightly, off of the track.

For what it's worth, the next time you make it out to practice you may want to have your Dad watch your inside rear wheel closely to see that it is in fact lifting off the track. Watch closely as it may be quite subtle.

I have other photos of drivers in that same spot that clearly show the rear lifted.

Just an observation.

John
_________________
Master Can #03 - G.P. Chassis - Tillett - Appco Engine - L&T Mini - Shockwave

Scott Keith · Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject:

Still willing to give suggestions, eh? A bold little fella after your discouraging mishap with the sprockets . . . only joking Surprised

! Yes you've noticed are Energy issue. We've noticed that too. Gerald's made all the correct adjustments for it, the chassis is nearly as free as it can get, but for some reason that tire just wont get off the track for us. This problem is kind of what I had posted about before in the "Energy Chassis" post. Whatever changes we make, seem not to effect the kart at all. So, to all you energy guys, what can I do to lift that inside rear?

Hey, maybe Im really fast and can run with the frontrunners, but that inside tire is slowing me down Razz

. Ah, dream on . . .

-Scott
_________________
On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit, you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

JohnC · Super Can Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 293

Scott here is a photo that shows what I mean. You've got the wheel cranked pretty good and it looks like the wheel should be unloaded at this point.

Hope it helps.
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Master Can #03 - G.P. Chassis - Tillett - Appco Engine - L&T Mini - Shockwave

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